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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:36 pm

47.5 wrote:
yeah kinda. God told them what to do (what I count as the Word) and they did it (the church). The Bible, written and organized or not, was still within them before the Bible was put on paper/stone. Therefore, the early Hebrew tribe followed what God said (basically a beginning form of the Bible) and they connected because of it.

You're saying the Bible was within them,
yet you used the game Telephone
as an example of how things can get misconstrued and way off course?







When Jesus left us, he put Peter or whomever it was in charge of The Church.
He was the first pope.

400 years later - or however long it was, certainly centuries - all of the books were looked at, some discarded, some kept,
and we now have the Bible as we know it because of that.

I really don't think there's any debate on that, unless we're talking about
two different things.
But no matter what, the CHURCH decided which books were to be in "the Bible".

Maybe I'm really misunderstanding you, I don't know...
Are you debating the fact that The Catholic Church put the Bible together,
and was THE Last Word and Decider of all things Holy?
And what was to be declared "within the teachings of Christ" and "blasphemous"?

I'm seriously not trying to be difficult!
Smile

That's the way it happened, though, brotha!




Reminder: In NO WAY are we debating whether Catholicism is "right" or if Evangelicals are "right".
We're only talking about HOW the Bible came to be what it is today, and whether or not a group of people sat down and DECIDED on the books that would go into it, and why.

Right?

jocolor
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47.5

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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:29 pm

I'm not even completely sure what topic we are debating anymore but I'll try. I may have messed things up earlier by using the wrong words for certain things.


Yes, the Church put the Bible together. But, however, the Church was created due to God telling them what is right and wrong before the Bible was written out. I couldn't find the word I was looking for earlier and ended up saying the Bible instead. I thought you were saying earlier that there was the Church (before being talked to by God or even knowing His existence) and they gave birth to the Bible. This made no sense whatsoever to me so I responded but screwed up by saying Bible instead of something else.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:36 pm

47.5 wrote:



LOL.
It's all good in the hood.
Smile

Hey, can you get into that demo of vBulletin?
I love it.
I might buy that software.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:19 pm

I was too lazy to sign up and everything. What is so special about it?
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:35 pm

47.5 wrote:
I was too lazy to sign up and everything. What is so special about it?



It LOOKS fantastic.
And I would OWN the software, instead of renting this space from forumotion.com.
If they're down, we're down.
If they go under, WE go under.
I wouldn't ever have to worry about that!
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:50 pm

BeMyIcon wrote:
47.5 wrote:
I was too lazy to sign up and everything. What is so special about it?



It LOOKS fantastic.
And I would OWN the software, instead of renting this space from forumotion.com.
If they're down, we're down.
If they go under, WE go under.
I wouldn't ever have to worry about that!
Is this forum ever even going to get big enough for us to worry about that?
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:04 am

47.5 wrote:
BeMyIcon wrote:
47.5 wrote:
I was too lazy to sign up and everything. What is so special about it?



It LOOKS fantastic.
And I would OWN the software, instead of renting this space from forumotion.com.
If they're down, we're down.
If they go under, WE go under.
I wouldn't ever have to worry about that!
Is this forum ever even going to get big enough for us to worry about that?


Who knows?
Way to be optimistic, though, LOL.
I haven't even tried to really get anybody to post here, nor have I marketed this in any way.
I think it could be a lot different if I did.
But I want the site to function well BEFORE I do that,
so people don't come here and think it's awful.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:14 am

Wait would everybody who gets on the forum (if you do purchase it) have to sign up and do the stuff that I was too lazy to do? That may be a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:28 am

47.5 wrote:
Wait would everybody who gets on the forum (if you do purchase it) have to sign up and do the stuff that I was too lazy to do? That may be a problem.



I'm sure not.
I'd bet it's just like what we do here, if not easier.
I would probably have an option to allow new users to begin posting immediately, without any validation.
king
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:53 am

BeMyIcon wrote:
I'm sure not.
I'd bet it's just like what we do here, if not easier.
I would probably have an option to allow new users to begin posting immediately, without any validation.
king
I thought this place could let new posters post without validation... I thought you just set it to that.


Actually, I just changed it. Now we don't have to activate them I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:21 am

I know your not really on this point anymore but Paul was wrong there arent PLASMA TVs in that church. They are projection tvs. There are a TON of people who attend that church and there is no way everyone will be able to see the pastor from the front. And it is kind of funny how Paul was saying that last year about that church but it seems he's been attending it for almost a year now. We have a million different churches right where we live and keeps going to that one. He made fun of the starbuck's (we never actually went to it) ....actually we both did...but now he actually wants to be involved with this church. I know having a Starbuck's at a church is a "wordly" thing but I can say that the Holy Spirit has filled this church. So maybe it wasnt a terrible idea after all?
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:34 pm

jbaby wrote:
So maybe it wasnt a terrible idea after all?

So you're saying that the Holy Spirit is "in" the church BECAUSE there is a Starbucks in it?
Or there are more people in it because of the Starbucks, thus leading to the presence of the Holy Spirit?
Or because Paul continues to go,
that must mean that the Holy Spirit is there?

And what do you mean by the Holy Spirit being there?


(and welcome to the board)
jocolor
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:57 pm

In NO WAY am I implying the "holy spirit" is there because of the Starbucks. Thats just crazy. Im just letting you know that even Paul (and I) had his doubts because of this reason and yet he still continues to go and actually enjoy, and now wants to persue some action in this church. Oh yeah, and its not even a "full on" Starbucks...its just a kiosk type thing. And no, I don't think that there are more people there because of the Starbucks. And no, just because paul goes that doesnt mean there is the Holy Spirit. I am just saying from experience with A LOT of churches that they have some GREAT dedicated people attending and working there.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:03 pm

jbaby wrote:
Im just letting you know that even Paul (and I) had his doubts because of this reason and yet he still continues to go and actually enjoy, and now wants to persue some action in this church. ..................................... I am just saying from experience with A LOT of churches that they have some GREAT dedicated people attending and working there.


O.K., those two things make total sense.

You're basically saying that in a church, you take the good with the bad,
and I agree.
And I feel the Starbucks aspect is the BAD.
It doesn't mean that church is all bad, and nowhere have I ever said that.
I was taking up issue with the Starbucks.

However, I will say that I have a problem with the congregation and the pastor being O.K. with that and allowing them to set up shop in there.
But one issue at a time, I guess!
LOL.
Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:22 am

Yeah, I know! We were totally taken back by that. Arent there enough Starbucks as it is? Its not like their even that great.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:31 pm

Well for the Starbucks haters all over the world... the recession is causing them to close a lot of their stores anyway so maybe this will be one!

But as far as it being in a church, no amount of espresso shots -free or paid for- will get you closer to accepting God in your hearts. I understand the thought process of the Pastor saying... 'let's get some fun things in here!' However gadgets and gizmos takes away from the message. Maybe try some fun get-togethers 'outside' the facility with those things to reach out to the community. I agree they do not have a place as a part of the church sactuary.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:38 pm

POP*ICON wrote:
I agree they do not have a place as a part of the church sanctuary.



Yep, and nobody's saying that because the pastor or congregation has allowed this that they're somehow NOT Christians or evil or anything like that.
I think they're just not seeing the whole picture - the commercialism factor that strikes at the foundation of Christianity.
I believe the church should be a Holy Place as well, somewhere you can go and have your time with God, not exclusively on Sundays.
I know people use this example all the time, and I already have in this thread, but isn't this the same thing Jesus got so pissed about when he went into the Temple (Church) and found VENDORS in there?
I think it is.

Having said that, many evangelical churches are not "Holy sanctuaries", so to speak. They're more casual and relaxed, and it's kind of like hanging out.
So for a church like that to have a Starbucks (kiosk, whatever),
it's not such a massive shock.
The problem is, I have a different definition of what the church should BE, so that's where the argument really lies.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:06 pm

Very much agreed! Obviously it is important to get people into the seats! But at what cost?? "Come, see... church isn't that bad! Why not hang out for awhile!" There is a time and place for that during fellowship times and that's great, but not as a part of the service. Seems like they are trying to make religion CONVENIENT. Try and make it hip and mainstream and appeal to the masses and that is not what I have as a definition as my church either.
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:32 am

POP*ICON wrote:
Very much agreed! Obviously it is important to get people into the seats! But at what cost?? "Come, see... church isn't that bad! Why not hang out for awhile!" There is a time and place for that during fellowship times and that's great, but not as a part of the service. Seems like they are trying to make religion CONVENIENT. Try and make it hip and mainstream and appeal to the masses and that is not what I have as a definition as my church either.



Nice job.



Oh: I took the liberty of giving you an avatar.
I can do that because I'm a powerful administrator.
I can change it if you want or tell you how to change it!
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PostSubject: Re: Starbucks Inside a Church   Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:35 am

jbaby wrote:



I gave you an avatar as well.
I'm so powerful.
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