chicken or the egg

Subject: chicken or the egg Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:21 pm

Eh... just like the chicken and the egg thing. Which came first: New Testament or Church?

Yeah I believe the Church came first, but the Church talked about in the Gospels was the name for all believers at that time. There is a difference between the Catholic Church we have today and the Church God loved as a husband loves his bride.

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:51 pm

47.5 wrote:: Eh... just like the chicken and the egg thing. Which came first: New Testament or Church?

Horrible analogy.

Quote :: Yeah I believe the Church came first, but the Church talked about in the Gospels was the name for all believers at that time. There is a difference between the Catholic Church we have today and the Church God loved as a husband loves his bride.

There was still a hierarchy of bishops and priests that made decisions.
Those are the people who put it together.
And no, it was absolutely the Church God loves as husband and wife.
Why would it be any different?

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:04 am

BeMyIcon wrote:: Horrible analogy.

:'''(

BeMyIcon wrote:: ]
There was still a hierarchy of bishops and priests that made decisions.
Those are the people who put it together.
And no, it was absolutely the Church God loves as husband and wife.
Why would it be any different?

Back then, it was the name for anyone who believed. Anyone who thought Jesus was God's son was considered the Church. The Church as we know it today is an organization.

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:16 am

Quote :: Anyone who thought Jesus was God's son was considered the Church. The Church as we know it today is an organization.

I don't believe that to be true.

You're deviating from the point.
You called it a "chicken and egg" thing, and I addressed that.
That's simply not the case.

Church leaders decided what was going to go in the Bible.
Period.

You can debate what certain books were talking about when and where,
and that's a different thread.

But right now we're talking about which came first,
and it's quite clearly the Chicken.

LOL.

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:21 am

BeMyIcon wrote:: Church leaders decided what was going to go in the Bible.
Period.
But right now we're talking about which came first,
and it's quite clearly the Chicken.

Eh. Yeah. People who were heading the group of followers (what was left of the apostles and others) complied the books and made one large book that we know of today as the Bible.

wow this is a pretty shitty debate...

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:51 am

Just to get this right, though...

You use the Church as the unquestionable source, while I think that of the Bible. No matter what the Bible says, if it disagrees with the Church you find it wrong, however it is the exact opposite for me. I find anything that disagrees with the Bible wrong. This is all correct, right?

sorry for the double post. I wanted to bump the topic.

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:00 am

47.5 wrote:: Just to get this right, though...

You use the Church as the unquestionable source, while I think that of the Bible. No matter what the Bible says, if it disagrees with the Church you find it wrong, however it is the exact opposite for me. I find anything that disagrees with the Bible wrong. This is all correct, right?

sorry for the double post. I wanted to bump the topic.

You're missing the point, I think, friend.
The Bible canNOT disagree with the Church, since the Church formed the Bible.
You see?

Try seeing it from my point of view for just a second.
Seeing it from that view and understanding it will not hurt you.
It will not turn YOU to the dark side.
Once you see that point of view, you can either choose to accept it or not accept it.

I "get" where you're coming from, as I was in a Baptist church for much of my life.
Or at least I think I understand where you're coming from enough to "counter".

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:12 am

47.5 wrote:: Just to get this right, though...

You use the Church as the unquestionable source, while I think that of the Bible. No matter what the Bible says, if it disagrees with the Church you find it wrong, however it is the exact opposite for me. I find anything that disagrees with the Bible wrong. This is all correct, right?

sorry for the double post. I wanted to bump the topic.

Also, by putting the Bible as the unquestionable source, I don't think you're speaking
strictly of the Bible, but of "Protestant or Evangelical Theology/Tradition, Differing From Those That Are Catholic".
Right?

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:57 am

BeMyIcon wrote:: Also, by putting the Bible as the unquestionable source, I don't think you're speaking
strictly of the Bible, but of "Protestant or Evangelical Theology/Tradition, Differing From Those That Are Catholic".
Right?

I don't base any belief I have off of just tradition of protestant theology. If I am told any of those, I check to make sure it is not conflicting with the Bible before accepting it as my belief.

Like right now I'm having trouble with Revelation. I hear many different sides, but I am in the midst of trying to find the one that is most backed up by scripture. I'm not just accepting whatever my church believes without question.

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:52 am

47.5 wrote:

BeMyIcon wrote:: Also, by putting the Bible as the unquestionable source, I don't think you're speaking
strictly of the Bible, but of "Protestant or Evangelical Theology/Tradition, Differing From Those That Are Catholic".
Right?

I don't base any belief I have off of just tradition of protestant theology. If I am told any of those, I check to make sure it is not conflicting with the Bible before accepting it as my belief.

Like right now I'm having trouble with Revelation. I hear many different sides, but I am in the midst of trying to find the one that is most backed up by scripture. I'm not just accepting whatever my church believes without question.

Not to go back to the Church before Bible thing,
BUT...

Don't you think that IF it really is true that there were Catholic bishops and priests and popes
who arranged the Bible with the books they saw fit and were pronounced as "good",
that it's at least worth looking into that to see if that really is the case?

I mean,think about it: IF IT HAPPENED THAT WAY, what would that say about "solo scriptura",
or the "The Bible contains everything I need" approach?

That's an approach that I believe STARTED at the time of the Reformation.

Anyway, just my thoughts on it.
I think it's worth looking into.

But then again, I'm Catholic.
LOL.

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:11 pm

Church existed before the books of the Bible were compiled. The Gospel is of Jesus' life and miracles, wouldn't have be written before He actually did them.

Am I getting the topic right??

Subject: Re: chicken or the egg Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:16 pm

POP*ICON wrote:: Church existed before the books of the Bible were compiled. The Gospel is of Jesus' life and miracles, wouldn't have be written before He actually did them.

Am I getting the topic right??

Yes, but I think we've come to an agreement on this one.

Get back to work.