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 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?

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POP*ICON

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PostSubject: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:12 pm

I'm going for McCain-Palin. I believe the speech given by Joe Lieberman was incredible, Giuliani, and Palin equally as great.

What are your thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:36 pm

POP*ICON wrote:
I'm going for McCain-Palin. I believe the speech given by Joe Lieberman was incredible, Giuliani, and Palin equally as great.

What are your thoughts?


I don't think I'll ever vote, assuming I CAN.

McCain supports the war, doesn't he?
I'm going to assume that Obama supports abortion, right?

So how could I "vote" for someone, taking the word VOTE literally?
Naw, nobody's getting MY vote.
And I don't feel that voting for the "lesser of two evils"
is worth my time.
I have uniforms to wash.



I will say this, though: Regardless of EVERYTHING ELSE,
I wonder if a black president would finally address racism in this country
and attempt to really do something about the atrocities in Los Angeles.
Not just by the gangs, but by the police and leaders areas like L.A.



EDIT: Politics is man's world, and I don't feel called to that.
Also, this IS God's Kingdom, not just heaven.
I just don't think politics is something I'm to be concerned with.
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POP*ICON

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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:44 pm

My initial response : sympathy... For those who died or were injured to give you the right to NOT vote.

That is in fact your right, but seems so sad. To think of it as a lesser of two evils. As if you feel you can never be affected by the world here in little Chippewa Falls. It is safe here. Why get involved in bigger issues? Or political issues? Because it can happen here. All the horrible things that go on in other cities or countries, can happen here.

I believe that we have fought for a right to vote a certain way, and that was the meaning of our freedom here. And so often people take it to mean, I have the right to not do anything at all. I think that is a sad way to look at it.

If you are interested, and I hope that you become interested in it, a good starting point to see the differences/similarities between the candidates is at http://pewforum.org/religion08
where you can compare the policies and what each politican has said their stance is.

The race, this year especially (maybe its just because this year I am actually researching it) seems to be geared much more to religion, then politics. I like that. I support that. It seems odd that there is such a desire to have a division between church and state and yet at each convention there were prayers. And in each issue, religion is brought up. I would think that would fuel your interest in making politics an issue in your life.

Your vote or non-vote does matter.
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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:59 pm

POP*ICON wrote:
My initial response : sympathy... For those who died or were injured to give you the right to NOT vote.

Well, if you opposed war, I would think you'd have a different perspective.
I mean, yeah, it's AWFUL that people are dying for my "right NOT to vote", although that's not really correct.
I have the "right not to vote LEGALLY" or however that can be spun.
I don't HAVE to do anything, anytime, anywhere.
It's just a question of whether there will be an earthly penalty or not.

And just because I don't agree with the WAY WE ACQUIRED OUR "FREEDOM" does not mean that I don't LIKE it.
See the difference?


Quote :
That is in fact your right, but seems so sad. To think of it as a lesser of two evils.

Please read the part about taking the word "vote" literally
again.
THAT'S my point.
V-O-T-I-N-G for someone = giving them my support,
which I can't due, largely due to the murderous policies.
So it WOULD be the "lesser of two evils".

Quote :
As if you feel you can never be affected by the world here in little Chippewa Falls.

That's a pretty big jump to "go there" with it.
That's not it at ALL.
I was speaking earlier about L.A., so clearly, based on my posts,
it has nothing to do with living in a small, "unaffected" town.

Quote :
And in each issue, religion is brought up. I would think that would fuel your interest in making politics an issue in your life.

So what if "religion" is brought up?
So what if there are "prayers"?
For one, I don't buy the prayers, anyway.
But even if I did, that brings to mind the video that Philip posted in
the "poop and pee" thread (or whatever he called it).
And THAT'S ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH CHRISTIANITY TODAY, as I stated earlier.


What a Face
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POP*ICON

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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:05 pm

First... you don't "buy the prayers?" How presumptutious of you to assume they are being done just for show... I would say that would not be very chrisitian of you to presume you know how or why someone else is praying.

And I get the LA issue. If you want to tackle it and believe that Obama might very well do that before it grows to reach "little" Chippewa Falls... support him.

Yes, the fact that our "legal system" which we have because of war, says you do not have to vote. So because there was war, to create and uphold that legal system, those who died or were injured did that to give you that right and that is what is sad. I believe the spirit of the "law" was to give you a choice in the matter, not to sit idly by. Idle hands are the Devil's playground.
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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:10 pm

POP*ICON wrote:
First... you don't "buy the prayers?" How presumptutious of you to assume they are being done just for show... I would say that would not be very chrisitian of you to presume you know how or why someone else is praying.


I didn't say they were "false".
I'm just not "buying the hype" and believing that these politicians aren't lying a LOT.
I should have said, "undecided".
I'm not a FAN of public prayer, necessarily, anyway.


Quote :
And I get the LA issue. If you want to tackle it and believe that Obama might very well do that before it grows to reach "little" Chippewa Falls... support him.

Are you actually reading my entire posts or just picking out things you like?
I addressed this with the "lesser of two evils" part.
Duh.

Quote :
Yes, the fact that our "legal system" which we have because of war, says you do not have to vote. So because there was war, to create and uphold that legal system, those who died or were injured did that to give you that right and that is what is sad. I believe the spirit of the "law" was to give you a choice in the matter, not to sit idly by. Idle hands are the Devil's playground.


The sprit of WHAT law?
God's Law?
We're talking about the "Legal System", not the Law of God.
Again, that's my problem with politics.

This "choice" that you're speaking of is not the "choice" that God gave us; free will.
Free will is the choice to serve God and do "good" things rather than "bad", not the CHOICE to vote or not.
LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:53 pm

Yes, I do read all of your posts.

And.... by saying you are not "buying the hype" or "buy the prayers" is not your job to decide. That is the kind of thinking that shouldn't be "worth your time." Deciding whether they are coming in good faith or just for show is God's job.

And.... by being concerned with the situation in LA, you show your concern with not even trying to show support for someone who might fix that issue? Even if it is the lesser of two evils? You would rather just say "well maybe he'd fix it but because I don't know, let's not try?"

And.... no speaking of the spirit in the law of this land. And no I am also not talking about the free will that God has given us. Suppose I am... of what use are you doing with your "free will" and "choice?" You chose to do nothing towards the land God has given you and the neighbors around you (see LA comment) because of "politics?"

Imagine (just because it is hot right now) that an Al Qaeda member came to you and said he was taking your daughter, not to kill her (because that would be great) but beat her, subject her to prostitution, and the worst of all, their religious beliefs. If there was an opportunity to get her back and save her, but it would involve war, what would you do? Honestly. What would you do? Just a hypothetical. I know I would have a real hard time with it. We "know" what the ideal would be, a test of real faith, but would that be enough for you? Do you think God might answer you with a "go get her?" Just a question. I'm not sure how I would handle it either. I think I would go get him.
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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:16 am

*sigh*

Quote :
And.... by saying you are not "buying the hype" or "buy the prayers" is not your job to decide. That is the kind of thinking that shouldn't be "worth your time." Deciding whether they are coming in good faith or just for show is God's job.


I'm NOT DECIDING.
I just don't know.
And it certainly IS "my job" to "decide" that - for myself.
If someone is praying publicly, then turns around and bombs a country,
then CLEARLY we have differences on the God that we're praying TO.
Same God, different perceptions.
See?
Again, it's about WHAT YOU DO, not about WHAT YOU SAY.


Quote :
And.... by being concerned with the situation in LA, you show your concern with not even trying to show support for someone who might fix that issue? Even if it is the lesser of two evils? You would rather just say "well maybe he'd fix it but because I don't know, let's not try?"

Yeah, maybe he'd fix it.
But then I'd have who KNOWS how many legal abortions to think of,
and the knowledge that MY VOTE put that man in power.

Quote :
And.... no speaking of the spirit in the law of this land.

You're going to have to explain to me what the "spirit of the law of this land" IS, because I've never heard of that before.

Quote :
And no I am also not talking about the free will that God has given us. Suppose I am... of what use are you doing with your "free will" and "choice?" You chose to do nothing towards the land God has given you and the neighbors around you (see LA comment) because of "politics?"

LOL.
Lucy, Lucy.
Little overboard there.
You assume that because I'm not actively VOTING
[for Obama in this case],
I'm doing nothing for the land "God has given me".
Come on.
That's QUITE a jump!
geek
Who says I'm not doing anything?
How could you possibly know that?
Naughty Lucy.

Quote :
Imagine (just because it is hot right now) that an Al Qaeda member came to you and said he was taking your daughter, not to kill her (because that would be great) but beat her, subject her to prostitution, and the worst of all, their religious beliefs. If there was an opportunity to get her back and save her, but it would involve war, what would you do? Honestly. What would you do?


What I would WANT TO DO and what I MIGHT DO has
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with what is righteous in the eyes of God.
I can't answer "what I would do",
because there are way too many variables.
If the question is" "would it THEN be O.K. to go to war or to kill that man?"
And my answers would be NO and NO.


Quote :
We "know" what the ideal would be, a test of real faith, but would that be enough for you?

What would the ideal be?
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47.5

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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:06 pm

I'm usually really into politics, but this election I'm pretty apathetic. I don't really care who wins and for some reason I see no incentive to look into their sides and see which is better. I guess since my thoughts don't count and I'm not voting, I have no reason to even care.
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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:16 pm

47.5 wrote:
I'm usually really into politics, but this election I'm pretty apathetic. I don't really care who wins and for some reason I see no incentive to look into their sides and see which is better. I guess since my thoughts don't count and I'm not voting, I have no reason to even care.


Amen!

Except for you thoughts not counting.
Just because you can't VOTE, doesn't mean you can't make
a significant difference in your community.

That means a hell of a lot more than voting for a politician, in my book.
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PostSubject: Re: 2008 : McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden?   Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:47 pm

BeMyIcon wrote:
Amen!

Except for you thoughts not counting.
Just because you can't VOTE, doesn't mean you can't make
a significant difference in your community.

That means a hell of a lot more than voting for a politician, in my book.
I go to a Christian school where everyone has the same ideas about everything. I think that if I dove too far into something that is slightly different than what they believe and debated it like I debate with you, I would be frowned upon and really not liked by the school. If I know about something and people are speaking differently about it than I would, I can't help but butt in and say my part. Without even taking a side, I won't have to worry about that.
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